Posted on

Debating a creationist

So I’ve had my first hand experience dealing with an idiot-err…creationist. So here’s the conversation we had just for fun. It’s a very “tl;dr” post, but if you share views like I do it might be worth it. Click on the read more for the story.

[10:40:33 PM] Raxton>> Hey you.
[10:40:40 PM] >>Zero : Out there on the wall?
[10:40:55 PM] Raxton>> Is there anybody in there?
[10:41:02 PM] >>Zero : Nope.
[10:41:24 PM] Raxton>> Strange thing happend two nights ago….
[10:42:09 PM] Raxton>> I had a dream I had a party for alot of the people going back to school in the LS and friends I know
[10:42:20 PM] >>Zero : Now that’s creepy.
[10:42:27 PM] Raxton>> You happend to be one of them.
[10:42:42 PM] Raxton>> And afterward I talked to you on the phone.
[10:42:57 PM] >>Zero : This is strange…where is it going?
[10:42:59 PM] Raxton>> No fucking clue why tho.
[10:43:28 PM] Raxton>> Idk, that was the whole dream. And no idea what was said either.
[10:43:34 PM] >>Zero : Hee hee.
[10:44:21 PM] Raxton>> But there is something I wanted to ask you. And don’t take it the wrong way….
[10:45:02 PM] Raxton>> A couple weeks ago or so, you mentioned you were athiest. How did you come upon that conclusion?
[10:45:17 PM] >>Zero : The original reason or why I still am?
[10:45:35 PM] Raxton>> Both, I guess.
[10:45:53 PM] >>Zero : Original reason: If there is a god, I got an awfuly bad hand for life, so fuck him and deal.
[10:46:17 PM] >>Zero : Why I still am: Read the bible cover to cover and found it preposterous.
[10:46:42 PM] Raxton>> Lots of people get worse deals than you.
[10:47:10 PM] >>Zero : Of course.
[10:47:10 PM] Raxton>> But then, what do you believe in then?
[10:47:20 PM] >>Zero : Science and the beauty of it.
[10:47:30 PM] Raxton>> Yourself, logic, science?
[10:47:35 PM] >>Zero : Yup.
[10:47:46 PM] Raxton>> You like logic?
[10:47:50 PM] >>Zero : Yes.
[10:48:02 PM] Raxton>> Awesome.
[10:48:07 PM] Raxton>> So do I.
[10:48:32 PM] Raxton>> But logic dictates, that even it does not answer all things.
[10:49:07 PM] Raxton>> By it’s own nature, logic is flawed.
[10:49:14 PM] >>Zero : Just because we don’t have an answer today doesn’t mean we will not have one tommorow.
[10:49:26 PM] Raxton>> Very true.
[10:49:46 PM] >>Zero : That is true for everything from the orgin of the universe to the diversity of life.
[10:50:10 PM] Raxton>> A man once said we should shut down the patent office, since everything had already been invented.
[10:50:27 PM] >>Zero : I partialy agree.
[10:50:29 PM] Raxton>> That was in the 20’s.
[10:50:46 PM] >>Zero : Some patents are just fucking stupid. All software patents are for one.
[10:51:26 PM] Raxton>> Well, I think like 80% of patents these days are just “improvements” on current technology.
[10:51:51 PM] >>Zero : The age of invention is over.
[10:51:57 PM] Raxton>> And most of them are like you said; stupid.
[10:52:08 PM] Raxton>> I disagree.
[10:52:20 PM] Raxton>> I feel it’s stagnated.
[10:52:40 PM] Raxton>> Primarily because of the way we think of things.
[10:52:56 PM] Raxton>> “I want it now, dammit!”
[10:53:21 PM] Raxton>> Soooooo….
[10:53:33 PM] Raxton>> Do you believe in evolution?
[10:53:43 PM] >>Zero : There’s no “Belief” about it.
[10:53:52 PM] Raxton>> Oh?
[10:53:52 PM] >>Zero : It’s a scientific fact. Just like all other theories.
[10:54:27 PM] Raxton>> Theories are just someones “best guess”, not [fact]
[10:54:46 PM] >>Zero : That’s a Hypothisis. Don’t confuse them.
[10:54:57 PM] Raxton>> Well…
[10:55:32 PM] Raxton>> How about if with your own knowledge, I could convince you to rethink your idea on evolution?
[10:55:45 PM] >>Zero : Try me.
[10:55:55 PM] >>Zero : On one condition. You cannot use faith.
[10:55:59 PM] Raxton>> You are familiar with physics?
[10:56:10 PM] >>Zero : Has nothing to do with evolution but go ahead.
[10:56:13 PM] Raxton>> Not one bit of faith is needed.
[10:56:35 PM] Raxton>> Everything I will use, is scientific fact.
[10:57:17 PM] Raxton>> Ok, according to tyhe way that earth evolved, a [Long time] ago, earth was smaller and was mainly….
[10:57:28 PM] Raxton>> Water.
[10:57:29 PM] >>Zero : Okay. You lost me.
[10:57:45 PM] >>Zero : Reason: Non-living systems, like the earth, do not “evolve”.
[10:57:50 PM] Raxton>> Then collided with anopther body that was mainly rock.
[10:58:21 PM] Raxton>> Ok, how should I put it…… developed into what we now know as earth?
[10:58:43 PM] >>Zero : Okay, go on.
[10:59:11 PM] Raxton>> Anywho, in this colision, the earth was formed, and the moon was too.
[10:59:47 PM] Raxton>> Science [fact]: The moon is traveling AWAY from earth at the rate of 1 inch/year.
[11:00:35 PM] Raxton>> And as we both know, this has been slowing down ever since the formation of the earth and moon.
[11:00:48 PM] Raxton>> Which means….
[11:01:08 PM] Raxton>> The moon was VERY close to the earth millions of years ago.
[11:01:33 PM] Raxton>> What does the moon do to the earth?
[11:01:48 PM] Raxton>> Helps to control the tides.
[11:01:51 PM] >>Zero : Provides night light and controls the tides.
[11:02:10 PM] Raxton>> If you use common physics…
[11:02:33 PM] Raxton>> You can go back in time and figure out how close the moon was at the same time…
[11:02:53 PM] Raxton>> Dinosuars “should’ have been on earth.
[11:03:08 PM] Raxton>> Oh, but then the tides…
[11:03:34 PM] Raxton>> Would be covering 90% of the erath in water every 24 hrs.
[11:03:40 PM] Raxton>> earth*
[11:04:48 PM] Raxton>> So how the hell could all the creatures (much less the plants) survive in several leagues of…
[11:04:55 PM] Raxton>> water?
[11:05:14 PM] >>Zero : Several problems with this idea.
[11:05:22 PM] Raxton>> That in itself, is total science.
[11:05:37 PM] >>Zero : One, I have yet to read a scientific paper that says an object collided with the earth to form the moon.
[11:06:09 PM] >>Zero : I have read two competing ideas on how the moon was formed, and they are as follows:
[11:06:13 PM] Raxton>> I have read and seen it on Discovery channel as wel as TLC.
[11:06:30 PM] >>Zero : Those aren’t real science papers.
[11:07:16 PM] >>Zero : But stay with me. The two I have are the “Dividing body” where the moon was once a part of the earth…
[11:07:27 PM] >>Zero : then separated from it, probably from plate techtonics.
[11:07:49 PM] >>Zero : The second is “freebody” where the moon was freefloating then latched to the earth and is hanging out.
[11:08:15 PM] Raxton>> But then how would it be going away from the earth?
[11:08:18 PM] >>Zero : But this doesn’t disprove evolution.
[11:08:24 PM] >>Zero : In which theory?
[11:08:30 PM] Raxton>> The second.
[11:08:32 PM] >>Zero : The first one explains it perfectly.
[11:08:49 PM] Raxton>> True, but then it still would be too close.
[11:09:14 PM] Raxton>> For life to exist in the way that evolution said it would have been.
[11:09:43 PM] >>Zero : Simple. An object with enough veolcity can escape orbit. Case in point: the space shuttle.
[11:09:59 PM] Raxton>> I understand that.
[11:10:18 PM] >>Zero : Also, the moons recession rate may not be constant.
[11:10:34 PM] Raxton>> But 100 million years ago, the moon would have been causing tides too great for plants to exist.
[11:10:58 PM] >>Zero : And your evidence for this?
[11:11:17 PM] Raxton>> Simple physics.
[11:11:35 PM] >>Zero : If it’s simple, then how come I cannot follow you?
[11:11:42 PM] Raxton>> Just reverse the rate at which it has been going away fromthe earth.
[11:11:57 PM] >>Zero : That again is under the impression it’s been constant.
[11:12:09 PM] Raxton>> The rate would have been greater in the past.
[11:12:31 PM] Raxton>> Ok, what would cause it to not be constant?
[11:12:41 PM] >>Zero : It’s orbit.
[11:12:47 PM] Raxton>> And where is the evidence of this event?
[11:13:04 PM] >>Zero : “Slingshot”
[11:13:45 PM] >>Zero : As an object orbits another with enough orbital speed it will receed from said object with increasing…
[11:13:50 PM] >>Zero : acceleration.
[11:14:25 PM] Raxton>> But you are guessing.
[11:14:37 PM] Raxton>> It’s not a proven fact.
[11:14:38 PM] >>Zero : I’m not. NASA uses this to put probes into space.
[11:14:55 PM] Raxton>> I meant as far as the moon itself is concerned.
[11:15:14 PM] Raxton>> I understand about slingshot.
[11:16:59 PM] >>Zero : If your theory is right, then mine would have to be correct too based on the information.
[11:18:02 PM] Raxton>> But then if they both are correct, we are still left with “How the hell DID life start on earth?”
[11:18:17 PM] >>Zero : Now we’re getting into Abiogenisis.
[11:18:37 PM] >>Zero : So let me stop this debate with this statement:
[11:18:54 PM] >>Zero : You have yet to prove that Evolution is wrong to me.
[11:19:18 PM] Raxton>> Ok, then if you love logic; let me levae you with this…
[11:20:06 PM] Raxton>> Logic dictates: It is better to live your life as if there is a GOD, to die and find none, then to..
[11:20:22 PM] Raxton>> Live life as if there were none, and die to find there is.
[11:20:45 PM] >>Zero : How do you know it will be the Christian god?
[11:21:00 PM] Raxton>> Di I ever say I was Christian?
[11:21:13 PM] >>Zero : Then what are you/
[11:21:35 PM] Raxton>> I am….. Like you….. looking for answers.
[11:22:08 PM] Raxton>> And have been doing so, ever since I was 17.
[11:22:28 PM] Raxton>> When I got shot….. and was prononcued DEAD.
[11:23:07 PM] Raxton>> I scared the hell out of the doctor when I came back.
[11:25:33 PM] >>Zero : Pronounced dead. Meaning you had no pulse and electrotheraphy wasn’t working.
[11:25:44 PM] >>Zero : Was that true?
[11:25:45 PM] Raxton>> Bingo.
[11:26:07 PM] Raxton>> They hit me like 4 times.
[11:26:22 PM] >>Zero : So…how did you get shocked back?
[11:27:09 PM] Raxton>> That is something I have been trying to figure out for 27 yrs.
[11:27:25 PM] >>Zero : Did the doctors tell you?
[11:27:47 PM] Raxton>> All I can tell you, is I “felt” like I was given another chance.
[11:28:02 PM] >>Zero : 27 years you say? You must be in your 40s now.
[11:28:09 PM] Raxton>> The doctor had no explanation.
[11:28:18 PM] Raxton>> I am, 44.
[11:28:28 PM] >>Zero : Let’s examine that. Who’s to say that the medical tech back then just couldn’t find your pulse?
[11:29:34 PM] Raxton>> Who’s to say the doctor was wrong?
[11:29:43 PM] >>Zero : That too.
[11:29:54 PM] Raxton>> Many people have died and come back minutes after death.
[11:30:09 PM] >>Zero : Been declared dead anyway.
[11:30:28 PM] >>Zero : This is how science declares death: Your brain chemestry no longer functions.
[11:30:49 PM] Raxton>> What amazes me is kids that have drowned in ice cold water for 30+ minutes and come back.
[11:31:28 PM] >>Zero : Yeah. Like I said, as long as the chemestry still works, you’re technicaly alive.
[11:33:01 PM] Raxton>> So is being a vegetable; “alive”?
[11:33:23 PM] >>Zero : Technicaly.
[11:34:06 PM] Raxton>> Recently in Florida a man had his wife’s feeding tube disconected since she had been in a veggie…
[11:34:17 PM] >>Zero : I know about her. Terri Chavio.
[11:34:19 PM] Raxton>> State for years.
[11:34:28 PM] Raxton>> Yep, that’s her.
[11:34:42 PM] >>Zero : Answer: Her brain was functioning, however limited.
[11:34:54 PM] Raxton>> If that was me, pull the fucking plug after 24 hrs.
[11:35:10 PM] >>Zero : Me too.
[11:35:24 PM] >>Zero : But the hospital, among others, wouldn’t let her.
[11:35:27 PM] >>Zero : him*
[11:35:30 PM] Raxton>> Lights on, nobody home.
[11:36:07 PM] Raxton>> Living, and being self-aware, are two very different things.
[11:36:15 PM] >>Zero : Yes they are.
[11:37:39 PM] Raxton>> I am not trying to convince you of any religion, or that there is indeed a god. Can you understand..
[11:37:42 PM] Raxton>> That?
[11:38:01 PM] >>Zero : Yeah, but I do not accept what you’re saying as disproof of evolution.
[11:38:34 PM] Raxton>> I can’t accept evolution, it just doesn’t “fit”.
[11:39:49 PM] Raxton>> Besides, alot of the “proof” rides on theory. And carbon dating tests have gone wrong at times.
[11:40:08 PM] >>Zero : Only wrong in snails and contaminated materials.
[11:40:40 PM] Raxton>> Contaminated with what tho?
[11:41:06 PM] >>Zero : Really any non-organic material.
[11:42:18 PM] Raxton>> I once read that scientists thought that for somethign to be [Petrified], it took 100’s of thousands..
[11:42:30 PM] Raxton>> of years.
[11:42:46 PM] Raxton>> This has been proven wrong.
[11:43:00 PM] >>Zero : And petrification has what to do with radiometric dating?
[11:43:55 PM] Raxton>> Just another theory about scientists proven wrong is my point.
[11:44:10 PM] Raxton>> The same for oil.
[11:44:39 PM] >>Zero : Okay, the problem is you’re mixing fields of science together and assuming beacuse one is wrong…
[11:44:46 PM] >>Zero : the other is as well. This isn’t how science works.
[11:45:19 PM] Raxton>> I’m not saying all the fields are wrong, I am saying certain points of them are.
[11:45:49 PM] Raxton>> Simply because not enough was known about how these things really could come about.
[11:45:50 PM] >>Zero : So don’t lump them together.
[11:46:21 PM] Raxton>> They all cover “Science”
[11:47:55 PM] Raxton>> What do you define as being religion?
[11:48:02 PM] >>Zero : Dangerous.
[11:48:12 PM] Raxton>> LMAO
[11:48:27 PM] Raxton>> In many ways, I have to agree.
[11:48:43 PM] >>Zero : Have you read “The God Dilusion”?
[11:49:03 PM] Raxton>> Can’t say that I have.
[11:49:09 PM] >>Zero : Do.
[11:49:15 PM] >>Zero : Richard Dawkins is the author.
[11:50:13 PM] Raxton>> What I meant, is what is religion in your opinion?
[11:50:23 PM] Raxton>> Bsides dangerous.
[11:50:27 PM] >>Zero : Child Abuse.
[11:50:51 PM] Raxton>> [That’s interesting.]
[11:51:10 PM] Raxton>> Is that what you experienced?
[11:51:22 PM] >>Zero : Yes. My parents abused me in the name of religion.
[11:51:36 PM] Raxton>> And they were wrong for it.
[11:52:25 PM] Raxton>> If you know anything about what the bible says, god doesn’t force things down peoples throats.
[11:52:39 PM] Raxton>> Other people tho, do.
[11:52:43 PM] >>Zero : Perhaps, but the penalty for aposticisim is death.
[11:53:01 PM] Raxton>> The penalty for any sin is death.
[11:53:05 PM] >>Zero : Tha. Is in the bible.
[11:53:25 PM] Raxton>> But the strange thing is…
[11:53:47 PM] Raxton>> Many people have a big misconception about that “death”.
[11:54:12 PM] >>Zero : The bible says to stone them to death.
[11:54:30 PM] Raxton>> It also includes all the pain and suffering that goes along with aging and decay.
[11:55:47 PM] Raxton>> If we were to stone every child abuser in the world, there wouldn’t be anyone left to throw rocks.
[11:56:08 PM] >>Zero : (Not following)
[11:56:41 PM] Raxton>> Tell me someone that hasn’t done something wrong in life.
[11:57:03 PM] >>Zero : You’re assuming absolute morality now.
[11:57:14 PM] Raxton>> Not at all.
[11:57:59 PM] Raxton>> The bible says to stone people for certain sin, correct?
[11:58:07 PM] >>Zero : Yes.
[11:58:20 PM] Raxton>> But when did it say it?
[11:58:35 PM] >>Zero : I don’t have a book. I cannot perfectly cite.
[11:59:00 PM] Raxton>> Ok, I won’t get specific, but just know that it was old testament.
[11:59:13 PM] Raxton>> Not the new.
[11:59:52 PM] Raxton>> So, do things change?
[12:00:05 AM] Raxton>> Of course they do.
[12:00:30 AM] Raxton>> Things change as we learn more and more about life, and as we live it.
[12:01:30 AM] Raxton>> I am not trying in the least to justify what your parents (And lots of others) have done in life.
[12:02:31 AM] Raxton>> All I am saying is, you are stating old testament teachings, that no longer apply.
[12:02:53 AM] >>Zero : And therefore the bible is falable and therefore is irrelavant to my life.
[12:03:06 AM] Raxton>> It is not falable.
[12:03:31 AM] Raxton>> Things change.
[12:03:53 AM] Raxton>> That in itself does not make the bible falable.
[12:04:21 AM] Raxton>> You have to understand WHY.
[12:04:51 AM] Raxton>> Once you do that, the bible starts to make more sense.
[12:05:17 AM] Raxton>> Indeed, the same can be said of science.
[12:05:31 AM] >>Zero : But science is self-correcting. The bible is not.
[12:05:45 AM] Raxton>> Says who? You?
[12:05:59 AM] >>Zero : Has the bible ever changed from it’s original authors?
[12:06:36 AM] Raxton>> The teachings have changed over time because of events that ahve taken place.
[12:06:49 AM] >>Zero : But the bible has not.
[12:07:26 AM] Raxton>> You must remember, the bible was not written in a few years time, but over thousands of years.
[12:07:55 AM] Raxton>> Things changed for mankind over that period.
[12:08:05 AM] >>Zero : That doesn’t change that it is not divine wisdom.
[12:08:17 AM] >>Zero : And I will prove it to you.
[12:08:20 AM] Raxton>> Who says? You?
[12:08:44 AM] >>Zero : Example: The bible endorses slavery. We as humans consider this immoral.
[12:09:12 AM] Raxton>> God does not endorse slavery. Mankind does.
[12:09:22 AM] >>Zero : Therefore the bible is not divine wisdom.
[12:09:50 AM] Raxton>> How is it NOT? When man endores slavery?
[12:10:04 AM] >>Zero : The bible = Divine.
[12:10:10 AM] >>Zero : According to Christianity.
[12:10:19 AM] Raxton>> Agreed.
[12:10:30 AM] >>Zero : If that was true, yet we see slavery as immoral, then it cannot be divine.
[12:10:54 AM] Raxton>> I don’t follow you.
[12:11:53 AM] Raxton>> You must remember, not everyone thinks like you do. There are people that think slavery is morale.
[12:12:13 AM] >>Zero : Don’t tell me you do.
[12:12:50 AM] Raxton>> Never said that. But nor do I blind myself into thinking that everyone believes or thinks like me.
[12:13:32 AM] Raxton>> When you say “We”, I feel you mean “You”.
[12:14:48 AM] Raxton>> Simply put, you are saying god endorses slavery simply because it’s in the bible?
[12:15:21 AM] >>Zero : Yes.
[12:15:43 AM] Raxton>> How blind of a statement that is.
[12:16:07 AM] >>Zero : Then I shall point you to something.
[12:16:28 AM] >>Zero : Youtube “AronRa”. He’s a guy with long metal hair and sunglasses. Look at his…
[12:16:45 AM] >>Zero : “Fundimental Falsehoods of Creationism”. It’s a 2 Hour watch but it’s worth it.
[12:17:41 AM] Raxton>> Indeed. I feel you should research something else; like the bible. You said you read it, but know…
[12:17:47 AM] Raxton>> Little about it.
[12:18:10 AM] >>Zero : I read it without any outside interpretation. Just like any other book
[12:18:39 AM] Raxton>> Well, perhaps you should read the “original” writings.
[12:18:57 AM] Raxton>> And learn two languages in the process.
[12:19:33 AM] Raxton>> Then do your own interpretaion.
[12:19:47 AM] Raxton>> I sooo misspelled that.
[12:21:06 AM] Raxton>> If you were to write a book on your own life, and had a chapter on abuse, does that mean you…
[12:21:12 AM] Raxton>> Condone it?
[12:21:37 AM] >>Zero : Nope. Because it will include opinions.
[12:22:19 AM] Raxton>> Nor does god condone slavery, even tho it exists in the bible.
[12:23:11 AM] Raxton>> Put it to you this way; if he condoned slavery, wtf wouldn’t he make us all his slaves?
[12:23:33 AM] >>Zero : In a sense we all are. According to the “Divine Will”.
[12:23:55 AM] Raxton>> So you serve god?
[12:24:10 AM] >>Zero : That is if the bible is true, which it is not.
[12:24:56 AM] Raxton>> You can only serve god if you choose to do so. If you choose to not believe in him, you can.
[12:24:57 AM] >>Zero : I serve no one but myself.
[12:25:26 AM] Raxton>> And you are given that by free will.
[12:25:42 AM] Raxton>> Not by slavery.
[12:26:57 AM] Raxton>> Once upon a time, when I was doing research on religion, I thought I had found one that had…..
[12:27:13 AM] Raxton>> No hypocrites.
[12:27:26 AM] Raxton>> The Church of Satan.
[12:27:48 AM] Raxton>> Created by Anton LeVey in 1969.
[12:28:22 AM] Raxton>> I read the Satanic bible, and spoke with a member of that church.
[12:28:53 AM] Raxton>> Ac ouple years later, I was proven wrong about my idea.
[12:29:36 AM] Raxton>> Mr. LeVey’s own wife, had denounced the church, and became a southern baptist. >.>
[12:29:55 AM] Raxton>> I sooo laughed my ass off.
[12:30:12 AM] >>Zero : Funny, but I’m a PEARList.
[12:30:40 AM] Raxton>> Athiest,in other words.
[12:30:50 AM] >>Zero : …no.
[12:31:29 AM] Raxton>> What does that stand for then?
[12:32:24 AM] >>Zero : Physical Evidence And Reasoned Logic. It’s a philosiphy of “I think therefore I am” and…
[12:32:32 AM] >>Zero : The universe is real and we can learn something from it.
[12:33:14 AM] Raxton>> And this is not the meaning of Athiest? Or do you believe is some god?
[12:33:52 AM] >>Zero : No. It’s not.
[12:34:00 AM] >>Zero : Athiest means abcense of Thiesim.
[12:34:26 AM] Raxton>> So do you believe there is a god, or not?
[12:35:29 AM] >>Zero : No.
[12:37:04 AM] Raxton>> Science and religion both attempt to do the same thing; explain our existence and our beginnings.
[12:37:37 AM] Raxton>> And to some degree, our future.
[12:38:36 AM] Raxton>> Indeed, when you look at it, science is a religion in itself in that aspect.
[12:38:53 AM] >>Zero : Science is not what you think it is.
[12:38:57 AM] >>Zero : Not even close.
[12:39:06 AM] Raxton>> Not that it trys to make you believe in morales tho.
[12:39:09 AM] >>Zero : Science is natural explainations for the world around us.
[12:39:25 AM] Raxton>> So is religion.
[12:39:48 AM] Raxton>> Along with the supernatural as well.
[12:39:49 AM] >>Zero : No, Religion is SUPERNatural.
[12:40:00 AM] Raxton>> And natural.
[12:40:23 AM] >>Zero : Where?
[12:40:32 AM] Raxton>> Couldn’t have nature without the supernatural according to religion.
[12:40:42 AM] >>Zero : Name one thing in the bible that explains natural science?
[12:40:52 AM] Raxton>> Genesis.
[12:41:28 AM] Raxton>> Science is incomplete tho.
[12:42:40 AM] Raxton>> And I’m afraid always will be. Since we most likely will destroy ourselves before finding all of it.
[12:43:15 AM] Raxton>> And I base that on both sides of the research.
[12:47:49 AM] >>Zero : You must subscribe to Ben Stein.
[12:48:13 AM] Raxton>> Newp, but I’ve heard of him.
[12:48:35 AM] >>Zero : “Religion leads you a bright and glorious place, science leads you to killing people.”
[12:49:16 AM] Raxton>> Most wars have been fought in the name of religion.
[12:49:29 AM] >>Zero : You at least accept that.
[12:49:38 AM] Raxton>> Anyone who knows anything about history knows this.
[12:50:23 AM] Raxton>> But we didn’t use a nuke to force Christianity on the [Japanese].
[12:50:56 AM] Raxton>> We did it for vengence.
[12:51:09 AM] >>Zero : At the cost of almost 200,000 civilians.
[12:51:23 AM] Raxton>> Indeed.
[12:51:32 AM] >>Zero : In any war civilian casualties are not acceptable.
[12:51:56 AM] Raxton>> Says who?
[12:52:01 AM] >>Zero : Me.
[12:52:19 AM] Raxton>> Go fight in a war and come abck and say that.
[12:52:20 AM] >>Zero : If you’re not part of the warmachine you do not deserve to die for it.
[12:52:40 AM] >>Zero : …insulting.
[12:52:52 AM] Raxton>> Have you?
[12:53:57 AM] Raxton>> Fight with a gun and shoot a 12 yr old that has a bomb strapped on him. Then tell me who is….
[12:54:03 AM] Raxton>> Innocent.
[12:54:25 AM] >>Zero : Answer this question then. Is the boy part of the warmachine?
[12:54:51 AM] Raxton>> That I can not say for certain, didn’t have time to ask him.
[12:55:12 AM] >>Zero : Did you see the intent for him to kill you?
[12:55:34 AM] Raxton>> He was dead, no matter wtf he did.
[12:56:02 AM] >>Zero : So, more or less you just found a corpse?
[12:56:08 AM] Raxton>> No matter what his intent was. If it was forced on him, or if he did it on his own is moot.
[12:57:13 AM] Raxton>> What I mean is this; in that situation, you can’t know what another man (or boy) thinks.
[12:57:27 AM] Raxton>> Or believes in.
[12:57:47 AM] Raxton>> At that point, all that matters is, it’s you or him.
[12:58:09 AM] Raxton>> War, REAL war, is a very personal thing like that.
[12:58:41 AM] Raxton>> And civilians and soldiers can become one in the same.
[12:59:25 AM] Raxton>> This is a lesson that is not taght in school, but on the battlefield.
[1:00:22 AM] Raxton>> And how did we get this? From religion, or did we get the technology from science?
[1:00:57 AM] >>Zero : That question doesn’t make sense.
[1:01:28 AM] Raxton>> The tools are not important, but the intent is. Since more people have died from the sword than the.
[1:01:33 AM] Raxton>> Gun.
[1:02:21 AM] Raxton>> Science gave us the ability to destry ourselves in 40 min.
[1:02:46 AM] >>Zero : Nuclear Apocolypse?
[1:02:53 AM] Raxton>> Yes.
[1:03:27 AM] >>Zero : It as also provided the means of having less than 1% of people produce plentiful food for all.
[1:03:37 AM] Raxton>> If you think for one second that we won’t use nukes again, you are a fool.
[1:03:57 AM] >>Zero : I’d like to never be around if it happens.
[1:04:16 AM] >>Zero : I won’t deny their use can be appetizing, but I’d rather not. If I had the trigger…
[1:04:31 AM] >>Zero : I’d probably say “give some of this plutonium to NASA.”
[1:04:33 AM] Raxton>> I would. Right at the center of a target. Won’t feel a damn thing.
[1:05:14 AM] >>Zero : Deep Space probes use Nuclear Fission as power since the solar strength is too weak.
[1:05:40 AM] Raxton>> For now, but other technologies are in the works.
[1:06:04 AM] Raxton>> Hydrogen ram-jets.
[1:06:34 AM] Raxton>> But long before we can do that, we have to tame it for cars.
[1:07:10 AM] >>Zero : [Um…] You’re confusing Fusion with Fission.
[1:07:19 AM] Raxton>> Someday, man will be able to control the sun itself.
[1:07:36 AM] >>Zero : Fission requires plutonium or uranium (and specific varrieties of them).
[1:07:38 AM] Raxton>> Prolly right on that, I always did get them mixed up. >.>
[1:07:41 AM] >>Zero : Fusion is Hydrogen.
[1:07:58 AM] >>Zero : What do you know about chemestry?
[1:08:23 AM] Raxton>> Little, but some.
[1:08:41 AM] >>Zero : What’s the atomic number of Hyrdrogen?
[1:08:56 AM] Raxton>> 42! 😛
[1:09:00 AM] >>Zero : 1.
[1:09:10 AM] >>Zero : It’s also it’s atomic weight.
[1:09:17 AM] Raxton>> It was a lame attempt at a joke. >.>
[1:09:20 AM] >>Zero : Putting two of them together is easy.
[1:09:28 AM] >>Zero : (I am going somewhere with this).
[1:09:41 AM] >>Zero : But breaking something that small? Not likely.
[1:09:55 AM] Raxton>> Aha!
[1:10:25 AM] >>Zero : Uranium is 119. Putting two large objects together? Hard. breaking it? Friggin’ easy.
[1:12:32 AM] Raxton>> Why is it so hard to put them together?
[1:13:42 AM] >>Zero : It’s unstable. We’ve been able to create elements up to 118 in atomic number, but they don’t…
[1:13:53 AM] >>Zero : stay together before they break down in radioactive decay.
[1:14:15 AM] Raxton>> Yea, I think I do remember reading about that.
[1:14:24 AM] >>Zero : (Uranium is 92 by the way, I got that wrong)
[1:14:28 AM] Raxton>> That was sooo long ago tho.
[1:14:40 AM] >>Zero : Radioactive decay is how radiometric dating works anyway.
[1:14:53 AM] Raxton>> Yea.
[1:15:01 AM] Raxton>> Half-life.
[1:15:31 AM] >>Zero : You understand it, why not belive it?
[1:15:41 AM] Raxton>> But it doesn’t work 100%.
[1:15:49 AM] >>Zero : And it’s not used where it doesn’t work.
[1:16:03 AM] Raxton>> You understand about god?
[1:16:30 AM] >>Zero : Yes, and that’s why I don’t believe it.
[1:16:52 AM] Raxton>> That makes like absolutely no sense to me.
[1:17:13 AM] Raxton>> I feel there’s alot about religion you don’t know.
[1:17:26 AM] Raxton>> (Or are afraid to learn)
[1:18:23 AM] Raxton>> I’m not saying to believe it, just learn more about it.
[1:18:44 AM] >>Zero : I’ll take that and run with it.
[1:19:04 AM] Raxton>> You don’t run.
[1:19:32 AM] >>Zero : Metaphoricaly.
[1:20:01 AM] Raxton>> I asked myself a question along time ago: Why is there so many religions, and which one (if any)
[1:20:07 AM] Raxton>> Are right?
[1:20:34 AM] Raxton>> I’ve been doing research on it ever since.
[1:21:11 AM] Raxton>> Some religions are just crazy.
[1:22:43 AM] Raxton>> The thing that amazes me, is that the big 3 (Christianity, Judism, Muslim) all believe the same….
[1:22:59 AM] Raxton>> Thing will eventually happen.
[1:23:21 AM] >>Zero : And when 2016 hits, all those of other faiths and non-faiths will laugh.
[1:23:29 AM] Raxton>> That Jesus will come back and set things right.
[1:23:59 AM] Raxton>> Nah, Muslims don’t think it will be that soon.
[1:24:20 AM] >>Zero : No, if the story would be true, he comes in 2012 or 2015. When I say 2016, it means…
[1:24:26 AM] >>Zero : The notion is wrong.
[1:25:17 AM] Raxton>> You’re talking about what some religions believe, not all.
[1:25:35 AM] >>Zero : And that’s why I said those of other faiths and non-faiths will laugh.
[1:25:52 AM] Raxton>> Geez, even Jehovah’s Witnesses thought he was coming back in 1976.
[1:26:15 AM] >>Zero : I find that story even more bullshit than the bible
[1:26:35 AM] Raxton>> They rewrote the bible.
[1:27:02 AM] Raxton>> They basically put themselves in the place of the Jews.
[1:27:17 AM] Raxton>> “God’s chosen people”
[1:27:19 AM] >>Zero : Yup.
[1:28:02 AM] Raxton>> It was the first religion I studied. My GF at that time had been raised in it.
[1:28:41 AM] Raxton>> Within 2 weeks, I found more holes in their belief than I find in swiss cheese.
[1:29:54 AM] Raxton>> The bible even says “No man shall know the time, I shall come as a Thf in the night.”
[1:30:48 AM] >>Zero : THF?? Did you just fumble FFXI with the Bible?
[1:30:54 AM] Raxton>> Yet, they spend 75% of their resources sending out flyers on their research to find the date. ><
[1:31:31 AM] Raxton>> Ooops, did I do that?
[1:32:45 AM] Raxton>> So I laugh every time I hear someone quote a date of Jesus’s return. (And claim to be devout!)
[1:33:53 AM] Raxton>> But realistically, where is mankind headed?
[1:34:04 AM] >>Zero : I know not what the future holds.
[1:35:06 AM] Raxton>> I have asked that to many.
[1:36:10 AM] Raxton>> Christianity (For the majority) says mankind will live on for another 1k yrs.
[1:36:30 AM] Raxton>> At least on earth.
[1:37:28 AM] Raxton>> Science says we may evolve into beings that resemble the small aliens we are accustomed to….
[1:37:39 AM] Raxton>> In many Sci-Fi books.
[1:37:41 AM] >>Zero : No it doesn’t.
[1:37:50 AM] >>Zero : Humans don’t evolve anymore.
[1:38:01 AM] >>Zero : Well, evolve as we know it.
[1:38:25 AM] >>Zero : The major component of evolution is natural selection. With healthcare being what it is, this is…
[1:38:26 AM] Raxton>> Ok, let’s say “adapt”.
[1:38:33 AM] >>Zero : not a thing that will happen anymore.
[1:39:02 AM] Raxton>> You honestly believe that?
[1:39:17 AM] >>Zero : Yes.
[1:39:49 AM] Raxton>> Then I suggest you rethink what healthcare will be like if/when we have a nuclear war.
[1:40:22 AM] Raxton>> Btw…
[1:40:24 AM] >>Zero : That isn’t natural selection though.
[1:40:55 AM] Raxton>> Who the radiation kills?
[1:41:03 AM] Raxton>> No, it’s not.
[1:41:28 AM] >>Zero : Radiation kills just about everything.
[1:41:32 AM] Raxton>> But if mankind survives it, natrual selection will take place again.
[1:42:55 AM] Raxton>> And if we don’t; I bet the next dominate species will look alot like a cockroach.
[1:43:10 AM] >>Zero : Roaches cannot surive radiation.
[1:43:16 AM] >>Zero : Mythbusters dealt with that.
[1:43:31 AM] Raxton>> They live longer than anything else.
[1:44:30 AM] Raxton>> And from the research on radioactive sites like Chernobyl, the first to come back.
[1:46:57 AM] Raxton>> But I feel mankind’s future is bleak in the near future anyway. Too many people trying to build…
[1:47:04 AM] Raxton>> Nukes.
[1:47:17 AM] >>Zero : And many who want to get rid of them.
[1:48:02 AM] Raxton>> All it would take, is one bomb to start a full scale war. Sooner or later, I feel it will happen.
[1:48:30 AM] Raxton>> I don’t think it will completely go to full scale tho.
[1:48:50 AM] Raxton>> Where every missle will be fired.
[1:49:29 AM] Raxton>> Just a dozen could kill billions.
[1:51:03 AM] Raxton>> Even at that, it would take man prolly centuries to bounce back.
[1:51:50 AM] >>Zero : With the rate populations explode with our tech, I give 100 years to bounce back.
[1:52:13 AM] Raxton>> Population explosion.
[1:52:58 AM] Raxton>> When I was in high school, we did a research paper on how much food can planet earth make?
[1:53:22 AM] Raxton>> And still have enough trees to be able to breathe.
[1:53:38 AM] >>Zero : If all persons worked on farms we would have enough food to probably feed everyone 100 times over.
[1:54:25 AM] Raxton>> You have to figure out watering, and fertilizing, and animals too.
[1:54:39 AM] Raxton>> And you are very wrong.
[1:54:40 AM] >>Zero : Assume knowlege is not an obstical.
[1:55:19 AM] Raxton>> We took at that time and technology; account for all we could.
[1:56:09 AM] Raxton>> We came to a final sum that 12 billion people could be fed. Assuming you could transport it too.
[1:56:27 AM] Raxton>> Since not all areas are good for farming.
[1:56:30 AM] >>Zero : With current tech/etc?
[1:57:05 AM] Raxton>> Yes, that was 25+ yrs ago too. So taking into account today’s, I would say no more than 15.
[1:57:26 AM] Raxton>> There’s just not enough room for more.
[1:57:50 AM] >>Zero : At that point synthetics may become the way of the future. Or space.
[1:58:07 AM] Raxton>> But do you see the problem?
[1:58:14 AM] >>Zero : Yes. Population cap.
[1:58:24 AM] >>Zero : Why do you think China has a limit?
[1:58:36 AM] Raxton>> And we are quickly approaching it.
[1:58:53 AM] Raxton>> Population doubles every 20 yrs.
[1:59:11 AM] Raxton>> How many people on earth right now?
[1:59:24 AM] Raxton>> Between 6-7 billion.
[1:59:28 AM] >>Zero : ~6.5 billion?
[1:59:53 AM] Raxton>> We are talking 20 yrs at most, and people are going to starve.
[2:00:34 AM] Raxton>> We won’t have the tech at that point to send colonies to the moon/space to farm.
[2:01:26 AM] Raxton>> It will be much easier to kill people than to do a massive farming effort.
[2:01:47 AM] Raxton>> And mankind always does what is easiest.
[2:02:57 AM] Raxton>> So as I see it, you can believe what you want. Religion or science, we are gonna have a major war…
[2:03:03 AM] Raxton>> And damn soon.
[2:04:13 AM] >>Zero : As you will. I think it’s time for my bed though.
[2:04:37 AM] Raxton>> You and me both. It’s 2 [A.M.], and I get up at 6.
[2:05:04 AM] Raxton>> But I must say, I have enjoyed chatting with you.